Tuesday, March 18, 2008

Theatre of the Absurd

First, let there be no mistake. We are laughing at Absurdicus. Laughing out loud. Belly laughs.

His turn around time is pretty amazing. We only wrote our Dueling with Absurdicus essay a few hours ago and already he has torn it apart. Or tried.

It seems that Mark Udall isn't really lying to the public. He is using perfectly acceptable campaign tactics that just happen to not be truthful. It's not quite the same thing. Anyone who calls his untruths lies is subject to a libel suit:
Telling a lie is quite a different thing than using campaign tactics you don't agree with. I'd love for [ Mark ] Udall to bring a libel case against you.

We stand uncorrected. Is it any wonder that the public dislikes politics and politicians when lies are "campaign tactics you don't agree with." What would Mark Udall bring a libel case for? You should go back and follow the Udall as a liar labels. Perhaps you can help him make a case.

You really shouldn't ask us to list the lies you have told:
1. The main argument that is being used against drilling on the Roan Plateau is that it is pristine, untouched country, beautiful beyond belief, and that is the argument that we have responded to. The published photographs don't show little critters. They try to show the terrain in a deceptive way. Your argument has evolved from an admission that the terrain isn't what is being described to an argument that the argument being put forward is about the critters. That is untrue. We link to the articles we reference. The best label to follow is "Roan Plateau."
2. We don't own an SUV and never have. We have a wonderful little 2000 Ford Ranger with terrible shocks and reasonable gas mileage for a truck. The wife doesn't own a SUV either, and never has. None of our children own SUV's. We don't think any of our siblings or siblings-in-law own SUV's.
3. Grandpa McGrumpy, eh? Name calling isn't lying. It is just good campaign tactics, lol.
4. A claim that misleading photographs and misleading descriptions isn't propaganda is a lie.
5. Your assertion that oil companies could match the campaign donations of Sierra Club members was a lie. Your assertion that oil companies shouldn't have the right to have a mechanism to protect their interests is offensive.
6. You have no idea what your argument is and claiming that you do is a lie. You haven't used the same argument twice. First it was that you couldn't see anything from 10,000 feet. Then it was an admission that the Roan Plateau wasn't all that pretty with an assertion that we shouldn't suck the land up like a milkshake. Now it is that Google Earth doesn't reveal all of the wonderful and unique critters. The middle argument had integrity. The same can't be said for the other two.
7. BLM is not going to allow drilling on all of the Roan Plateau, so your latest critter argument is a misrepresentation of the facts, another lie.

Is seven lies enough?

Your desire to "continue to slap [us] around" if we name the conditions under which we would like to see the discussion in the political realm is telling. We could "respect" an argument free of the kinds of lies and misrepresentations you and Mark Udall seem to love. Lies aren't really lies - they are only campaign tactics in your book. In mine, they are still lies.

This discussion is at an end. Post any comment you like. This author won't respond. You are not consistent enough or ethical enough in your arguments to make continuing worthwhile.

2 comments:

absurdicus said...

Lie: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Apparently I'm 7 times the liar according to McGrumpy. Let me count the ways:

"Your argument has evolved from an admission that the terrain isn't what is being described to an argument that the argument being put forward is about the critters. That is untrue."

What, I can't make more than one point and that's somehow a lie? Hello, logic calling. I thought folks like you don't believe in evolution. You are somehow assuming I'm a party to all the folks working to preserve the Roan Plateau. Don't know 'em, not working with them. I'm just arguing you.


"We have a wonderful little 2000 Ford Ranger with terrible shocks and reasonable gas mileage for a truck."
So I'm lying by assuming you own an SUV? Ok, you got me. OMFG! BTW, the Ford Explorer (an SUV) is built off the Ford Ranger platform. What is "reasonable gas mileage for a truck", 15mpg?

"Grandpa McGrumpy, eh? Name calling isn't lying. It is just good campaign tactics, lol."

Bzzzz, you're too old to use "lol" and so am I. So is that lie #3 or what?

"A claim that misleading photographs and misleading descriptions isn't propaganda is a lie."

How is a picture of the roan plateau misleading? I still assert this is not misleading. But, even if I concede this point let's look at the definition of the word.

Propaganda 1.information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.


Thus, propaganda does NOT equal lie.

"Your assertion that oil companies could match the campaign donations of Sierra Club members was a lie."

If you look back, I referenced the astroturf group Americans for American Energy who was created by Pac West Communications, a PR firm hired by oil companies.

Should we start totalling up the PAC money for oil drilling interests that's going into the coffers of Bob Schaffer and his ilk? I don't think you want to go there.
"Your assertion that oil companies shouldn't have the right to have a mechanism to protect their interests is offensive."
Starting to lose track. Does that count as a lie in your book? Wait, I know. Let me do what every other republican does to apologize. I'm sorry that you took offense to my statements.
"You have no idea what your argument is and claiming that you do is a lie. You haven't used the same argument twice."

How do you know what I'm thinking? You must have amazing mind reading capabilities. Also, I didn't know there were ground rules. Maybe we need a contract or something. Gosh!

"BLM is not going to allow drilling on all of the Roan Plateau, so your latest critter argument is a misrepresentation of the facts, another lie."

Huh? I never said anything about the BLM decision and its scope.
I thought you were better than that.

I do enjoy these little sessions.

A Watcher said...

As do I, but this one is getting old.

Next time, try to keep your arguments in one place.

Best